DH Comic Book of the Month (May): Comic Chat
Hi folks! So, we had a monthly comic book meeting on May 18th where we read Tom King's Omega
Men: The End is Here. Since I picked the book, I was asked to open and lead the discussion. I was honest, I chose this book to fuck with Brenda and Terri. Why? Because Brenda and Terri tend to be land on opposite extremes when it comes to politics. Terri advocates for chaos and anarchy while Brenda though liberal, advocates for a moderate approach. I thought they would each provide interesting viewpoints for our discussion. I didn't take any notes during our actual discussion, but in the hopes of tapping into some of that magic I thought maybe a question and answer format might work for an online platform. Bear with me as we figure out these kinks in the system! -Jen
First of all, will you each articulate how you felt after reading King's Omega Men? I recall receiving some colorful expletives and memes on our group chat when you each finished your read through.
Brenda: I believe my exact thoughts were: what. in. the. actual. fuck. Jen.
Honestly, I felt like I was reading a version of the story that lead El Salvador to Civil War. This is obviously an over simplification and me imposing MY reading and experience on a novel (which you're not supposed to do as an English major), but the cost of life and the daily struggle that the people in the Vega System faced seemed so familiar to me that it angered and frustrated me. The allegory wasn't lost on me, but at some point, I really dgaf. But I think ultimately what I was craving was hope, and when it didn't come...I didn't know how to deal with that.
Terri: The choice of Omega men was specifically designed to challenge my position that revolution cannot happen with out blood shed. I fundamentally believe that in order to change oppressive regimes that have been in power for thousands of years it takes a little anarchy, OK a lot of chaos and anarchy, to achieve fundamental change. After reading Omega men, my position softened somewhat because it forced me to see the human toll that that level of revolt requires. It also puts into to focus what most revolutionaries forget about the struggle, and that is the aftermath. How does a society create something new when the leaders of the rebellion only know two things: rebellion and previous political structures. In Omega men, we are forced to come to grips with this reality. What comes next?! Most people don't have a fully fleshed out "what comes next". So society ends up recreate the same power structures and not providing any real change and leaves so many people destroyed in its wake.
Tory: I'm not very versed in the Lantern Universe outside of John Stewart in the Justice League Animated Series. For me, this was a total shock because it was a slow darkness build. The narrative was pretty fair until the last few issues which just emotionally abused us. I had this feeling as I finished that we are all just F****D (are we allowed to swear on this?), and nothing matters because all of our options are F'ed. Kyle continuously poses this "we have a third option!" ideology which is very much in line with how I see my place in the world, and in my classroom. Watching Kyle's ideology get shattered broke me. Random thought, I want to explore later so I don't forget: we are a generation that wants a revolution so badly, but Omega Men shows the aftermath of a revolution, and how it isn't always a "cure all."
I'm glad to hear that Omega Men had profound effects on your personal experiences, philosophies, or knowledge base. For me, Omega Men was an incredibly dense read. I wasn't surprised by any of the actions or events that took place, but I was morose at the end of it. But, I know there were some personal takeaways reading this graphic novel could each of you share a bit of that? And if not, can you share a moment that struck a chord with each of you?
Brenda: There's a scene in the beginning of the novel where the Omega Men have essentially branded Kyle with the Omega symbol. He's looking into the mirror, and we get a glimpse of his grandmother's rosary. The quote at the bottom of the page is a contemplation on prayer, and Kyle starts to recite the Green Lantern oath: "In brightest day, in darkest night, no evil shall escape my sight. Let those who worship evil's might, beware my power--Green Lantern's light." While he is reciting the oath, he slits his throat and draws the Green Lantern symbol over the omega brand. At this point in the novel, Kyle has been murdered, tortured, and is starting to be brainwashed by the Omega Men, so this is really one of the first scenes where you get the sense that Kyle isn't going to be okay. He's reciting the oath almost like prayer in an attempt to hold onto everything that he is, and it's tragic and heartbreaking and you have like 100 more pages to go, so while both you, as the reader, and Kyle are exhausted, the fight is just beginning.
Tory: Brenda took the words right out of my mouth: "In brightest day, in darkest night, no evil shall escape my sight. Let those who worship evil's might, beware my power--Green Lantern's light." While he is reciting the oath, he slits his throat and draws the Green Lantern symbol over the omega brand. This fucked me so hard, man. It made me think a lot about oaths as a healer or a law enforcer, and how they should be this pure and honest mantra. Kyle wants to hold true to that mantra, but he has to choose between genocide and overthrowing a system. It is almost a catch 22. He's damned if he helps, damned if he doesn't. This, for me, is further emphasized at the very end when he doesn't give a direct answer to the question of "will you defend Earth or side with Vega?" It's is as if he is completely out of F's to give. Which is where the narrative left me as well!
Brenda: So I picked Pride of Baghdad for our first-ever comic book club meeting, and I accidentally broke a few people. A year later, and I still carry the scarlet letter.
Tory: The old Tory can't come to the blog right now. Why? OH! Because Brenda killed him! I kid, I think Omega Men was a harder read only because we had the characters so much longer.
Terri: Since I'm late to some of these questions, I pick up with the comparison between the lions dying and this novel. The death of the lions was awful, but since it is about the US invasion of Iraq you have to expect civilian casualties which is analogous to what has/is happening in Iraq. Omega men hit me in a different way. I wasn't upset that the ending was ambiguous because well, life, history. It was the pointlessness of the revolution. Or I should I say the appearance of pointlessness, that was unnerving. Characters dying in texts happen all the time and my reaction to it is somewhat dispassionate. That's just me. However, the potential for real change dying hits me at my core because it signals the possibility that real change in our world will not happen and that is heart breaking.
Men: The End is Here. Since I picked the book, I was asked to open and lead the discussion. I was honest, I chose this book to fuck with Brenda and Terri. Why? Because Brenda and Terri tend to be land on opposite extremes when it comes to politics. Terri advocates for chaos and anarchy while Brenda though liberal, advocates for a moderate approach. I thought they would each provide interesting viewpoints for our discussion. I didn't take any notes during our actual discussion, but in the hopes of tapping into some of that magic I thought maybe a question and answer format might work for an online platform. Bear with me as we figure out these kinks in the system! -JenFirst of all, will you each articulate how you felt after reading King's Omega Men? I recall receiving some colorful expletives and memes on our group chat when you each finished your read through.
Brenda: I believe my exact thoughts were: what. in. the. actual. fuck. Jen.
Honestly, I felt like I was reading a version of the story that lead El Salvador to Civil War. This is obviously an over simplification and me imposing MY reading and experience on a novel (which you're not supposed to do as an English major), but the cost of life and the daily struggle that the people in the Vega System faced seemed so familiar to me that it angered and frustrated me. The allegory wasn't lost on me, but at some point, I really dgaf. But I think ultimately what I was craving was hope, and when it didn't come...I didn't know how to deal with that.
Terri: The choice of Omega men was specifically designed to challenge my position that revolution cannot happen with out blood shed. I fundamentally believe that in order to change oppressive regimes that have been in power for thousands of years it takes a little anarchy, OK a lot of chaos and anarchy, to achieve fundamental change. After reading Omega men, my position softened somewhat because it forced me to see the human toll that that level of revolt requires. It also puts into to focus what most revolutionaries forget about the struggle, and that is the aftermath. How does a society create something new when the leaders of the rebellion only know two things: rebellion and previous political structures. In Omega men, we are forced to come to grips with this reality. What comes next?! Most people don't have a fully fleshed out "what comes next". So society ends up recreate the same power structures and not providing any real change and leaves so many people destroyed in its wake.
Tory: I'm not very versed in the Lantern Universe outside of John Stewart in the Justice League Animated Series. For me, this was a total shock because it was a slow darkness build. The narrative was pretty fair until the last few issues which just emotionally abused us. I had this feeling as I finished that we are all just F****D (are we allowed to swear on this?), and nothing matters because all of our options are F'ed. Kyle continuously poses this "we have a third option!" ideology which is very much in line with how I see my place in the world, and in my classroom. Watching Kyle's ideology get shattered broke me. Random thought, I want to explore later so I don't forget: we are a generation that wants a revolution so badly, but Omega Men shows the aftermath of a revolution, and how it isn't always a "cure all."
I'm glad to hear that Omega Men had profound effects on your personal experiences, philosophies, or knowledge base. For me, Omega Men was an incredibly dense read. I wasn't surprised by any of the actions or events that took place, but I was morose at the end of it. But, I know there were some personal takeaways reading this graphic novel could each of you share a bit of that? And if not, can you share a moment that struck a chord with each of you?
Brenda: There's a scene in the beginning of the novel where the Omega Men have essentially branded Kyle with the Omega symbol. He's looking into the mirror, and we get a glimpse of his grandmother's rosary. The quote at the bottom of the page is a contemplation on prayer, and Kyle starts to recite the Green Lantern oath: "In brightest day, in darkest night, no evil shall escape my sight. Let those who worship evil's might, beware my power--Green Lantern's light." While he is reciting the oath, he slits his throat and draws the Green Lantern symbol over the omega brand. At this point in the novel, Kyle has been murdered, tortured, and is starting to be brainwashed by the Omega Men, so this is really one of the first scenes where you get the sense that Kyle isn't going to be okay. He's reciting the oath almost like prayer in an attempt to hold onto everything that he is, and it's tragic and heartbreaking and you have like 100 more pages to go, so while both you, as the reader, and Kyle are exhausted, the fight is just beginning.
Tory: Brenda took the words right out of my mouth: "In brightest day, in darkest night, no evil shall escape my sight. Let those who worship evil's might, beware my power--Green Lantern's light." While he is reciting the oath, he slits his throat and draws the Green Lantern symbol over the omega brand. This fucked me so hard, man. It made me think a lot about oaths as a healer or a law enforcer, and how they should be this pure and honest mantra. Kyle wants to hold true to that mantra, but he has to choose between genocide and overthrowing a system. It is almost a catch 22. He's damned if he helps, damned if he doesn't. This, for me, is further emphasized at the very end when he doesn't give a direct answer to the question of "will you defend Earth or side with Vega?" It's is as if he is completely out of F's to give. Which is where the narrative left me as well!
I like this emphasis on Kyle's oath as a Green Lantern. I think the fact that you both narrowed in on this particular scene speaks to the graphic novel's effectiveness in articulating visually the moral compromises of revolutions and by extension warfare. So, is it the revolutionary’s responsibility to have a solution for the societal's ills he/she hopes to remedy through revolution?
Brenda: I think we expect them to. I don't think a leader in the time of conflict is often the best person to lead in times of peace. I think history supports me in my opinion of this, but I don't want to over generalize either. I don't think I actually have an answer to this.
Tory: Absolutely. You break it, you buy it. There needs to be a plan and a figure head to lead the people to start and finish a revolution. It isn't going to be rainbows and butterflies just because the old big bad has been guillotined. The system will descend into chaos after the revolution and common enemy is dead. Someone or something needs to quell the chaos or it will degenerate back into a racial turf war.
Interesting, then is Omega Men suggesting that living species are incapable of existing without hierarchies?
Brenda: Given that Kalista and her merry band of misfits turn around and impose the same types of hierarchies that the Citadel used when they were in power, I think so. But to be fair, I do think King is pointing to that inability to exist or imagine something different as tragic, and I am the optimist. I do hope that the reader and some kid (or group of kids) somewhere can do better than us, and hopefully, imagine and create a better alternative cause these hierarchies SUCK.
Tory: My theory on hierarchies is that conscious beings like being controlled. That can be by a ruler, religion, culture, or their significant other. Arguably, this means we can baton pass any blame or ugly parts of ourselves onto the figure head. "I don't like the way my life is because of X and it's X's fault." I am not suggesting this is correct or true for everyone, but it seems to be a trend in our behavior throughout history.
Tory: Hmm I have a lot of thoughts about this. I think they manifest differently in the real world and in comics. For comics, I think they can get overly sexualized for the male gaze. I think this exists because we *always* get the "I was taught to use every weapon in my arsenal to get what I need because I was raised in this super F'ed up thing. My body is just another weapon!" And honestly, I am tired of that narrative. Scrapps isn't really there enough for me to comment. Like she's just always kind of in the background and she has a few moments of growth, but then she doesn't even get a follow up narrative at the end. They just toss her aside after they met the male to female quota for the cast.
I agree with you Tory that Scrapps is largely left to the background, but I also think that narrative choice speaks volumes about the role of poor minority women of color. The fact that she is left to cut through the red tape of the negotiation with the religious group near the end of the novel and violently get the job that needs to get done for this revolution to move forward. However, she is the only one out of the characters that didn't reap any benefits. Instead, she disappears in nothingness which I think says a lot about the position given to poor women of color--important to get the dirty work done until success is met then immediately discarded or forgotten.
Brenda: He was an entry point and the stand-in for the audience. We experienced a lot through Kyle, and arguably, we were indoctrinated into the Omega Men with him. Whether or not King was successful in this is, I think, dependent upon the individual person's connection to Kyle. For me, I was totally drawn in and duped by the Omega Men, but I don't regret it cause I had all the feels.
Tory: I think Kyle is the audience. He is kind of a potato while they build the world up. I think he eventually separates from that role when he gets his ring back. I think this because he goes back from regular Earth human back to god mode.
Brenda: He's warning us against the type of over analysis that we are engaging in here. LoL. So I suggested earlier that we should try to imagine better solutions, but King is warning us against looking to his novel for answers. His novel is more of a documentation of events that happened rather than offering any real solutions. And to be honest, I kinda like that? I like that he's encouraging his readers and placing responsibility on them to imagine solutions to real world problems if that makes sense?
Tory: That ending quote has really stuck with me. We are just the voyeur looking through the window to see the action. We aren't part of it. Maybe the same thing can be said for revolutions? I normally hate ambiguous endings, but this one really worked for me because Kyle was in the "we're all doomed what's the point" mode that the actual text left me in.
Brenda: I think we expect them to. I don't think a leader in the time of conflict is often the best person to lead in times of peace. I think history supports me in my opinion of this, but I don't want to over generalize either. I don't think I actually have an answer to this.
Tory: Absolutely. You break it, you buy it. There needs to be a plan and a figure head to lead the people to start and finish a revolution. It isn't going to be rainbows and butterflies just because the old big bad has been guillotined. The system will descend into chaos after the revolution and common enemy is dead. Someone or something needs to quell the chaos or it will degenerate back into a racial turf war.
Interesting, then is Omega Men suggesting that living species are incapable of existing without hierarchies?
Brenda: Given that Kalista and her merry band of misfits turn around and impose the same types of hierarchies that the Citadel used when they were in power, I think so. But to be fair, I do think King is pointing to that inability to exist or imagine something different as tragic, and I am the optimist. I do hope that the reader and some kid (or group of kids) somewhere can do better than us, and hopefully, imagine and create a better alternative cause these hierarchies SUCK.
Tory: My theory on hierarchies is that conscious beings like being controlled. That can be by a ruler, religion, culture, or their significant other. Arguably, this means we can baton pass any blame or ugly parts of ourselves onto the figure head. "I don't like the way my life is because of X and it's X's fault." I am not suggesting this is correct or true for everyone, but it seems to be a trend in our behavior throughout history.
During our live conversation, the idea of the woman's role with regards to Princess Kalista and overused trope of 'femme fatale' came up, would any of you want to expand on this? What does King's novel intimate about the role of women during revolutions? And, for the intersectional question, how does class play into women's roles during these revolutions (e.g. Princess Kalista and Scrapps)?
Tory: Hmm I have a lot of thoughts about this. I think they manifest differently in the real world and in comics. For comics, I think they can get overly sexualized for the male gaze. I think this exists because we *always* get the "I was taught to use every weapon in my arsenal to get what I need because I was raised in this super F'ed up thing. My body is just another weapon!" And honestly, I am tired of that narrative. Scrapps isn't really there enough for me to comment. Like she's just always kind of in the background and she has a few moments of growth, but then she doesn't even get a follow up narrative at the end. They just toss her aside after they met the male to female quota for the cast.
I agree with you Tory that Scrapps is largely left to the background, but I also think that narrative choice speaks volumes about the role of poor minority women of color. The fact that she is left to cut through the red tape of the negotiation with the religious group near the end of the novel and violently get the job that needs to get done for this revolution to move forward. However, she is the only one out of the characters that didn't reap any benefits. Instead, she disappears in nothingness which I think says a lot about the position given to poor women of color--important to get the dirty work done until success is met then immediately discarded or forgotten.
Although Kyle Rayner is trumpeted as the main character of Omega Men, I felt his presence and function was largely as an audience view point. What do you guys think about his role in this graphic novel?
Brenda: He was an entry point and the stand-in for the audience. We experienced a lot through Kyle, and arguably, we were indoctrinated into the Omega Men with him. Whether or not King was successful in this is, I think, dependent upon the individual person's connection to Kyle. For me, I was totally drawn in and duped by the Omega Men, but I don't regret it cause I had all the feels.
Tory: I think Kyle is the audience. He is kind of a potato while they build the world up. I think he eventually separates from that role when he gets his ring back. I think this because he goes back from regular Earth human back to god mode.
At the end of the graphic novel, Rayner opens with a discussion of the gutter (the white lines of panel separation in graphic novels) as a metaphor. While I thought his discussion was a bit on the nose, I absolutely loved it. But, I'm curious, what do you think about the novel's ending? What do you think King was trying to say or imply? And, do you agree?
Brenda: He's warning us against the type of over analysis that we are engaging in here. LoL. So I suggested earlier that we should try to imagine better solutions, but King is warning us against looking to his novel for answers. His novel is more of a documentation of events that happened rather than offering any real solutions. And to be honest, I kinda like that? I like that he's encouraging his readers and placing responsibility on them to imagine solutions to real world problems if that makes sense?
Tory: That ending quote has really stuck with me. We are just the voyeur looking through the window to see the action. We aren't part of it. Maybe the same thing can be said for revolutions? I normally hate ambiguous endings, but this one really worked for me because Kyle was in the "we're all doomed what's the point" mode that the actual text left me in.
Lastly, was this better or worse than the lions dying in Brian K. Vaughn's Pride of Baghdad? Lol.
Brenda: So I picked Pride of Baghdad for our first-ever comic book club meeting, and I accidentally broke a few people. A year later, and I still carry the scarlet letter.
Tory: The old Tory can't come to the blog right now. Why? OH! Because Brenda killed him! I kid, I think Omega Men was a harder read only because we had the characters so much longer.
Terri: Since I'm late to some of these questions, I pick up with the comparison between the lions dying and this novel. The death of the lions was awful, but since it is about the US invasion of Iraq you have to expect civilian casualties which is analogous to what has/is happening in Iraq. Omega men hit me in a different way. I wasn't upset that the ending was ambiguous because well, life, history. It was the pointlessness of the revolution. Or I should I say the appearance of pointlessness, that was unnerving. Characters dying in texts happen all the time and my reaction to it is somewhat dispassionate. That's just me. However, the potential for real change dying hits me at my core because it signals the possibility that real change in our world will not happen and that is heart breaking.
Since I'm late to some of these questions, I pick up with the comparison between the lions dying and this novel. The death of the lions was awful, but since it is about the US invasion of Iraq you have to expect civilian casualties which is analogous to what has/is happening in Iraq. Omega men hit me in a different way. I wasn't upset that the ending was ambiguous because well, life, history. It was the pointlessness of the revolution. Or I should I say the appearance of pointlessness, that was unnerving. Characters dying in texts happen all the time and my reaction to it is somewhat dispassionate. That's just me. However, the potential for real change dying hits me at my core because it signals the possibility that real change in our world will not happen and that is heart breaking.
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